Interviewee: Colonel Lucius Gunther Schrivenbach
Interviewer: James Edmondson
This manuscript has been unedited except where noted.

Interview Dates (August 9, 2005 - August 23, 2005):

August 9 - World War I
August 10 - World War I and first brawls between Nazis and Communists
August 19 - Great Depression, Hitler's rise, hiding Jews, World War II begins
August 22 - Serving in the Afrikakorps, serving in France, D-Day,
August 23 - Being captured, Denazification, Rommel and Rundstedt's funeral

Images

Image 1 - Rommel and Schrivenbach in Africa. Schrivenbach is carrying binoculars to the right of Rommel.
Image 2 - Schrivebach (front left) at rest in Africa before an offensive.

August 9, 2005 [Dates]

lgschrivenbach: good evening
jedmondson3: how are you doing, gunther?
lgschrivenbach: I am well thankyou. I thought perhaps that I was late in connecting but then I noticed that you were not yet here! You are well I hope?
jedmondson3: Sorry, is it 9:00 in your time zone or 8:00. For some reason, I was thinking I was 6 hours behind you.
lgschrivenbach: is it 9:00
lgschrivenbach: it is 9.00 - sorry
jedmondson3: My apologies for the tardiness then. My phone must be set for the wrong time zone here. :)
jedmondson3: Are you ready to begin then?
lgschrivenbach: yes yes, whenever you want to start
jedmondson3: Okay. If you wouldn't mind, what is your full name and when was your birthdate?
lgschrivenbach: I am Lucius Günther Schrivenbach, born 12th September 1911
jedmondson3: And so, your current age is 93?
jedmondson3: Am I doing the math correctly :)?
lgschrivenbach: actually, i am 94
lgschrivenbach: ;)
jedmondson3: Okay, well my apologies.
jedmondson3: If you don't mind we'll begin by talking about your experiences during World War I.
lgschrivenbach: no problem. before we go any further, we may have to break this down into 2 interviews, as i have my brother visiting and must be elsewhere at 10pm.
lgschrivenbach: ask away. what would you like to know?
jedmondson3: No problem.
jedmondson3: Well, on a more general note, do you have any fond memories from your childhood during World War I?
jedmondson3: Perhaps that was a bit too general. What part of Germany were you in during World War I?
lgschrivenbach: oh let's see, such a long time ago.... during WWI I was in my home town of Leipzig in what was, during the Cold War, East Germany, behind the Iron Curtain. At the time there were a lot of political activities and brawls happening. There was a lot of Russian influence too
jedmondson3: There was a lot of Russian influence in Leipzig during World War I? Can you give specific instances that you remember?
jedmondson3: Well, let me jump forward a bit. Were these brawls much like the nazi / communist brawls that happened during Hitler's rise to power?
lgschrivenbach: Well, I was only a boy at the time, but I remember that the main sphere of influence was in the political domain.... yes, sometimes the brawls were similar, but only with extremists. like i say, i was only a boy at the time, so i really cannot remember much. it was the culture and ideas, such as litterature that filtered through to our town
jedmondson3: So, were you handed any propaganda pamphlets as a child in Leipzig?
lgschrivenbach: oh no
lgschrivenbach: some of the older boys got given them, but i suspect that i wouldn't have understood what was written anyway!
jedmondson3: So, as a child how do you remembering feeling Russian influence during World War I? Were Russians discussed at the dinner table for instance?

<editor>Most of this interview was unfortunately lost. However, most that was lost was reiterated in later interviews.</editor>

August 10, 2005 [Dates]

lgschrivenbach: Good afternoon !
jedmondson3: Hello Gunther.
jedmondson3: Just one second.
jedmondson3: Did you have a nice night?
lgschrivenbach: oh yes thankyou. i hope that i have not got you up too early
jedmondson3: I'll survive ;)
lgschrivenbach: ok
jedmondson3: You wouldn't have happened to have saved yesterday's conversation would you? I just installed this messenger yesterday, and I didn't realize the archive feature was not on by default.
jedmondson3: I saved the conversation half way through
lgschrivenbach: no i am sorry i didn't. i presumed that you would have it filed away
jedmondson3: My internet connection closed the chat dialog before I had the chance
jedmondson3: I'm in a new place
jedmondson3: I apologize
jedmondson3: If you don't mind, I'll backtrack a bit?
lgschrivenbach: no problem - but save it this time!
jedmondson3: LOL! The archiving feature is now enabled and I will save it manually as well!
lgschrivenbach: ok
jedmondson3: Alright, do you mind if we talk again about Russian influence in Leipzig?
lgschrivenbach: no. which elements do you need me to repeat?
jedmondson3: You mentioned there was a lot of Russian influence in Leipzig during World War I. How was it present and did it have any effect on local politics?
lgschrivenbach: no effect on local politics at the time. it was very present in such ways as intellectual gatherings and such
jedmondson3: Do you know if your father or any of your family ever went to such gatherings?
lgschrivenbach: no i doubt that they did
jedmondson3: But they talked about them? Or, how did you find out about the Russian intellectual gatherings?
lgschrivenbach: when i was older i became interested in the strength of the political entity of the Soviet Union, as well as its foundation, and my father often told me about the gatherings that took place when I was a child
jedmondson3: So, he didn't tell you about these until after you were older?
lgschrivenbach: no
jedmondson3: Then let's progress the clock a bit. Do you remember the day Germany ended World War I?
lgschrivenbach: I remember the protests that arose from the signing of the Versailles Treaty, yes
lgschrivenbach: one small point, yesterday you asked me in which regement my father served in - my brother informs me that he was after a while posted to the IV Reserve Corps under the command of General von Riemann
jedmondson3: Many famous Germans like Hitler and Rommel noted disappointment about the surrender. How did you feel about the Versailles Treaty when you first heard about it? How did your father and mother take it? And, was your father back home when the Treaty was signed or was he still out in the field?
jedmondson3: Thank you for letting me know the regiment. Also, could you repeat your father and mother's names for the record please?
lgschrivenbach: my father was back home when the treaty was signed. i remember that my father seemed very concerned for our contry at the time and he got very enthrawled in a book by J M Keynes, The Economic Consequences of The Peace when it was published in the 1920s
lgschrivenbach: yes, my father was Edwin and my mother was Adelaide
jedmondson3: How many siblings do you have? You mentioned your brother is still alive. What is his name and how old is he?
lgschrivenbach: I have one brother and a sister. My brother is Iulius Hasso Schrivenbach, 97 years of age. My sister is Helga Sempronia Bischoff (né Schrivenbach)
jedmondson3: So, you were a family of five living through the English blockade of World War I? During the last two years of the war, what was a typical family meal and how often were you able to eat?
lgschrivenbach: we were able to eat every day, but only a small part of our rations of course. during the blockade times, when there were 4 of us, a typical family meal would be a bowl of thin soup with perhaps a small piece of bread
jedmondson3: So, these were certainly hard times for your mother and your brother and sister. You said yesterday that you weren't allowed to go into the streets because it wasn't safe. Did you and your siblings ever go out and play? Were you always attended by a family member? How do you remember this part of your childhood?
lgschrivenbach: Of course we played. But we were never allowed to play in the streets on the pavements and so on. We had parks and so on, and if we wanted to play in the park then we would amways be accompanied by our mother or a neighbour
jedmondson3: Okay, so in Leipzig during this time, what was one of your favorite games to play, either by yourself or with your siblings?
lgschrivenbach: and when, during the bloackade and most certainly just after the war, it was even too dangerous for us to play in the park, then we would make up our own games and stay at home
lgschrivenbach: my brother and I always enjoyed a small child's game of soccer, and i also had a little sailboat that used to put into puddles and so - i wasn't allowed near water in case i fell in.
jedmondson3: Were there any creeks or ponds near your townhouse in Leipzig?
lgschrivenbach: no
jedmondson3: Would you say that your childhood was happy during this period? Do you have many strong, fond memories from this time?
lgschrivenbach: as a child, one doesn't really know any different until the situation changes. yes, i did enjoy this particular time of my childhood
jedmondson3: Before we walk on to your teenage years, allow me to first ask about the blockade. You mentioned the danger of the streets during this time. Why were the streets dangerous, and how had Leipzig changed since the blockade was enforced?
lgschrivenbach: like I said yesterday, Leipzig is, and always was a city with very diverse cultural elements. We had a lot of Jews in our city and as they often earned more money than we did, then they sometimes could afford a little bit extra than us normal folk. So, in those instances the streets could become scenes of lootings or fights and so on and so forth, a little like we have just seen in Irak where the looting was encouraged by Saddam's blockade of Basra
jedmondson3: Did you ever see a riot going on? Were only local men involved or were there women and children involved, and was the rioting directed mainly at Jewish establishments or just generally at stores and wealthier establishments?
lgschrivenbach: just wealthier establishments. i saw many a riot and it usually involved men and boys who were old enough to understand
jedmondson3: Did you ever join in one?
lgschrivenbach: no
jedmondson3: Did your brother?
lgschrivenbach: no, none of us did
jedmondson3: Did you continue going to school during this period of war?
lgschrivenbach: yes, of course
jedmondson3: What school did you go to?
lgschrivenbach: i really cannot remember the name. it was a local boys school
jedmondson3: How many boys would you say went to this school? How big was this school?
lgschrivenbach: about 400 boys went to my particular school I think
jedmondson3: How was school life changed by the war?
lgschrivenbach: there were less classes as some of the boys had to help at home when their fathers were away. also, not all of the teachers survived the blockade
jedmondson3: So, many people were dying in Leipzig, including your teachers? Your family was able to survive on thin soup and bread. Were other families not so lucky? Rioting was going on. Were people going as far as murdering others in the streets, or what was the general situation in regards to poverty and hunger?
lgschrivenbach: people were not being murdered in the streets, although some did of course die from injuries obtained after having been beaten for their rations and such. our moral was high though, among those who wanted to try and survive without causing harm to others
jedmondson3: Yesterday, you mentioned that some people were talking about cannibalism occuring during this time. Do you believe people were so desperate in Leipzig? Do you believe this was occuring near your home?
lgschrivenbach: i think that it is possible that it was more likely to occur in the more poorer parts of the city. we never resorted to such things
jedmondson3: Okay. So, the war's over and your father is worried about Germany and the economy. You are just entering your adolescence and so are your siblings. Was your father able to stay in the small army that Germany was left with, or did he now have to find new work?
lgschrivenbach: no, my father stayed with the army.
jedmondson3: So, your father was able to keep a very stable job. How did the depression that Germany went into compare with the blockade? Were there differences? Did life get better immediately after the war, get worse, or stay the same?
lgschrivenbach: the 1920s were very prosperous for us all, even though we had to pay for the reconstruction of France. Our problems came, as you say, in the depression, especially in 1931. Then of course, when Hitler came to power, at first things were better for us. Life for my mother became slightly better as by the end of the 1920s she had 2 sons and a husband in the army
jedmondson3: So, the 1920s were prosperous and you became a teenager and continued your schooling? Do you remember what you wanted to be as a young man? Were you thinking about a profession?
lgschrivenbach: yes, as a young man I wanted to be a soldier
jedmondson3: So, you wanted to be a soldier? Did you have any soldier heros? Moltke? Hindenberg? Who were some of the people that you looked up to at the time?
lgschrivenbach: well, for me, my main hero was my father. i also looked up to a man who was well kown within the german staff corps, and became well known in the next war. my father told me a lot about him, as he had served with him for a time
jedmondson3: And who was the latter?
lgschrivenbach: G. v. Rundstedt, later to become Field Marshal
jedmondson3: Whom you would later serve with in World War II? What did your father say about G. v. Rundstedt? When did you first meet him?
lgschrivenbach: I first met him in or around 1932 in Berlin. My father used to tell me that this man was highly respected because of his manners and understanding of the less qualified soldiers, and in general that he was a good mixer - i wanted to be respected in the same way without being forceful
jedmondson3: So you wanted to be a general or someone of higher ranking, correct?
lgschrivenbach: no, I didn't mean it like that. I wanted to be a soldier and possible be of equal rank to my father. But most of all I wanted to be respected for my qualities as a person, and not for my brutish ways
jedmondson3: Okay, I understand.
jedmondson3: Did you finish your schooling before joining the army?
lgschrivenbach: yes and no. i finished my first part of schooling - elementary and so on. i joined the army at the age of 15
jedmondson3: Was this common in Germany? To join at 15? Here in America, you are not allowed to join until 18, although it was not always so.
lgschrivenbach: It was common to join at such an early age if you wished to join the General Staff. The training for such postings required to start at such an early age. If you were to be called up as a regular soldier, then the minimum age was 17
jedmondson3: So, you were 15 when you entered school. Did you have a girlfriend at the time? What about a first kiss?
jedmondson3: er when you entered the army, my apologies
lgschrivenbach: :-> My girlfriend, my one and only, I met in 1929. She became my wife
jedmondson3: And you were 18 when you met her, and in the army?
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: This was the tail end of the 1920s, the period of prosperity as you said it. Were there signs of the looming depression or were the good times still in full swing?
lgschrivenbach: the signs of the depression were visible from 1924 onwards. Europe was not really hit by all of that until 1931/32
lgschrivenbach: apart from France, where everything came about in 34
jedmondson3: Were you stationed in Leipzig when you met your wife?
lgschrivenbach: no Berlin
jedmondson3: Ah, Berlin. So, there were signs of depression in Berlin. What did you see? How was the depression manifested there?
lgschrivenbach: are you referring to the mid 1920s?
jedmondson3: From 1924 onward right? When did you first start thinking that something wasn't right? What were the signs that the depression was coming?
lgschrivenbach: the signs were in the economy. we, and the rest of europe, were producing much more things than were needed, especially in industry. the big sign of depression for us came at the moment when Great Britain came off the Gold Standard - our banks were in turmoil
lgschrivenbach: in fact, one of the main problems for our industry was Britain's return to the GES in 1923. The signs appeared from 1924... it just wasn't a sound system
jedmondson3: Germany had many presses in Berlin and Leipzig. What were the papers saying at the time? Did you think things would become worse at the time?
lgschrivenbach: no, noone thought that things would become worse at the time, unless of course you were in to communism, which at the time was very attractive.
jedmondson3: So, you remember the openness of the communists in Germany? When did the first brawls start happening between communists and other political groups in Germany?
lgschrivenbach: around 1925
jedmondson3: How common was it to see a brawl between political groups at this time? Did you expect one every time you walked out the door? Once a week? Twice a month? How often was there fighting in the streets of Berlin?
lgschrivenbach: oh yes, one expected to see something every time one went out. in the late 1920s you could come accross fighting every time that a communist walked past a national socialist
jedmondson3: When do you remember first hearing about the national socialist parties?
lgschrivenbach: in the paper and on the radio after the munich putsch

August 19, 2005 [Dates]

jedmondson3: good afternoon :)
lgschrivenbach: Guten Morgen
jedmondson3: Well, we left off with tensions between the nazis and communists in Berlin. Do you mind if we pick up there?
lgschrivenbach: no
jedmondson3: Well, to start with, you met your wife in 1929. What year were the two of you married?
lgschrivenbach: 1930
jedmondson3: You're a fast worker ;)
lgschrivenbach: Well, we felt right for each other :x
jedmondson3: 1930 was also the year that the first nazis were elected to office. What was it like being a newly wed couple during this time? Did either of you join the nazi party? What did you think of the nazi party at the time?
lgschrivenbach: No, neither of us joined the nazi party. I didn't like the nazi party - but I didn't like the Weimar regime in place either - as a soldier I tried to stay the furthest away from the political sphere as i could
jedmondson3: Was there a lot of nazi propaganda that targeted you as a soldier? Or was there a kind of understanding that soldiers were supposed to be apolitical? Rommel mentioned that he was strictly apolotical as well.
lgschrivenbach: no, propaganda was not directed at soldiers - the nazi peopaganda targeted more the general masses of people (cf; the newspaper DER ANGRIFF)
jedmondson3: Okay, so you were pretty much allowed to be apolitical by the nazis. I always wondered if there was a lot of party lobbying at the army and such.
jedmondson3: The years from 1930 to 1934 saw Hitler rise to power in Germany. What was it like, watching the SA grow in power in Berlin, and how did you feel when they were eliminated in the Night of the Long Knives?
lgschrivenbach: Of course, it felt oppressing seeing the SA grow in size, especially with the scrapping between Röhm and Göring over who should really be their leader. The Night of the Long Knives was not really a shock for me. There was an atmosphere which sort of predicted that something would happen to this effect
jedmondson3: What was the atmosphere like in the army when things like this happened? Were officers worried that they might be next? Were they grateful? How was Hitler viewed among your own unit? BTW, what unit were you in during this time?
lgschrivenbach: No, I don't think that army officers were worried about their own lives, especially since the army had always been an essential part of the German Reich - Hitler was hardly likely to attck the corps which he depended on to guard Germany's frontiers. At the time, I think that most of my unit was more or less indifferent to Hitler - some adored him, others just did their job. At the time, in 1934, I was still in training, under Rommel
jedmondson3: Which brings us to the questions in our email. When did you first start serving under Rommel?
lgschrivenbach: 1932
jedmondson3: Was this under the Alpine Battalion or were you in a different unit at this time?
lgschrivenbach: The Alipne battalion was drafted I believe at the end of 1932. When I first worked under Rommel I was still at a military training school. I wasn't really in a unit as such
lgschrivenbach: except for a reserve corps
jedmondson3: Was this still part of the General Staff training that you mentioned you joined at the age of 15 for? How long was this training, and how was it different from normal training?
jedmondson3: And by normal training I mean that for a common footsoldier.
lgschrivenbach: Yes, still part of the training. The length of this training could last for up to 15 years. The differebnce between it and normal training was that it is done a little like an apprentiship nowadays. You go to school, and then you alternate it with serving in various battalions or units. Normal training was, and is, basically just joining the army and learning as you go
jedmondson3: So, you are training to be an officer under Erwin Rommel (a captain at this time I believe). What were your first impressions of him? How was he viewed by the troops?
lgschrivenbach: He was very popular among the troops. I also liked him. He easily mixed with the other footsoldiers - well, he himself was one
jedmondson3: Did he ever describe some of his World War I experiences with you? Did he just display behavior similar to a footsoldier, or did you read his book by this time?
lgschrivenbach: no, he didn't need to describe experiences from WWI. Yes, we had read his book - one of our training manuals infact. Why should he display behaviour similar to a foot soldier? I don't quite understand your question
jedmondson3: Well, sometimes a former profession etches itself into the way a person works. Experiences shape the person. I guess I was asking how his being a former foot soldier effected his leadership. What was he like with the Alpine Battalion?
jedmondson3: er affected
lgschrivenbach: there is an anecdote from this time :
lgschrivenbach: The day after Rommel arrived at Goslar, where we were posted (I was there before Rommel), we officers proposed a small ski excursion to him. We were curious to see if your new boss could command us, already being quite mature. We had to physically walk up the mountain to get to the top. We stopped to have a drink, to rest our legs a little before going down, and to have a cigarette, when Rommel said "Why not go down straight away?". So we did, and afterwards we knew that he was a very good at skiing. Then Rommel wanted to do it all again. Then a third time. We were all really enthusiastic at the end, and we'd all had enough, except for Rommel, who said that all of the pistes looked good and we should try them all (:|
lgschrivenbach: 8-}
jedmondson3: Hah
jedmondson3: And my apologies, Rommel was now a Lieutenant-Colonel. Does that sound right?
lgschrivenbach: no - he was a Lieutenant Colonel from 1935
jedmondson3: Thanks for the correction. So, the training at Goslar in the Harz Mountains was rigorous certainly but fun?
jedmondson3: My bad, Fraser noted him being promoted in October 1933.
jedmondson3: Not really important.
jedmondson3: Did you enjoy the training in the Harz Mountains?
lgschrivenbach: Perhaps, but he was promoted in 1935 - yes, hard, but fun
jedmondson3: Rommel first met Hitler in 1934. Did he ever tell the Battalion about his meetings with Hitler? How much did he talk with the staff and soldiers?
lgschrivenbach: oh, he talked often with staff and soldiers, and we were even allowed to call him Erwin. Yes, sometimes he spoke of Hitler
jedmondson3: And his first impressions of Hitler were positive? When he would talk of him?
lgschrivenbach: His first impressions of Hitler could vary. Certainly he was captured by the charm of Hitler but often disturbed at the way the Führer would brush him aside at inspections of units. He would talk of him if you asked him, or sometimes to some soldiers who felt a bit down and such.
jedmondson3: In 1936, you were posted to organize security at the Olympic Games in Berlin, correct? What was it like being at these Olympic Games? Did you get to watch some of the events?
lgschrivenbach: Yes, that is correct. Yes, I was allowed to watch some of the events
jedmondson3: Did you get to watch any of the events that Jesse Owens participated in? Did Hitler really refuse to place a gold medal around his neck?
lgschrivenbach: You mean Jesse Owens' sprint races? Yes, I watched them - he was very good. Yes, he really did refuse
lgschrivenbach: I cannot remember who exactly gave him the medal, but I don't recall it being Hitler. When he won his first race, Hitler was waiting at the finish line, in order to congratulate the winning athlete. Usually, he would personally shake the hand of the winner - with Jesse, he turned around, and went back to his seat
jedmondson3: Did you have any of the same feelings? How pervasive was the national feeling of superiority, either racial or national?
jedmondson3: I apologize if this is a little personal, but I did warn you ;)
lgschrivenbach: by that time the feelings were quite high. No, I had none of the same feelings, I found it disgusting. Do you really think that I would have married a Jewish girl if I agreed with the racial policies???
jedmondson3: So, your wife is Jewish? You never mentioned that.
lgschrivenbach: you didn't ask
jedmondson3: I applaud you. Seriously, that must have been tough. Were you and your wife ever harassed by the nazis or did they leave officers in the army alone?
jedmondson3: Did they ever find out?
lgschrivenbach: they never found out because Eva doesn't have a "stereotypical Jewish face". Also, her maiden name was Jewish, but it was a name that was common in German society with non-Jews, a little like Strauß.
jedmondson3: Was her family spared the same profiling or did they leave Germany? What was it like for her family and friends at this time?
lgschrivenbach: we were left alone of course, although we did try to help Jews who were being persecuted by giving them somewhere to shelter and such. Or at least Eva and my mother did, when I was away during the war.
lgschrivenbach: Some of her family left and went to Palestine, others went to America and England. But some stayed behind.
jedmondson3: When did you find out about this? Did you approve at the time? Were you worried that your helping might be found out?
lgschrivenbach: Of course I approved. And yes, you were always worried that someone might find out. But my wife's attitude at the time was that if she were caught, and found out, but that this was a consequence of helping Jews, then she was convinced that her death would not have been in vain
jedmondson3: So, your wife and mother helped Jews escape persecution at home. Meanwhile, Hitler was annexing and flexing military might in Germany. How did you view the occupation of the Sudetenland, the Rhineland, and Austria?
lgschrivenbach: For me the occupation of the Rhineland was justified because the treaty of Versailles was unjust in taking it away from us. As for the occupation of Austria and the Sudetenland - what for? was the question I often asked myself. It was just an expansion of racial theories that were being put into practice
jedmondson3: You were still under Rommel in September 1939 when Germany invaded Poland, correct? Assigned to the Fuhrer's special field headquarters?
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: Did this unit see any action in Poland or were you mostly in the rear?
lgschrivenbach: it was at around that time when I first starting to serve as communications officer. I was in Berlin during the whole of 1939
jedmondson3: So, you didn't set foot in Poland during the invasion?
lgschrivenbach: no
jedmondson3: What did your unit do in the time between September 1939 and February 1940, when Rommel was appointed to the 7th Panzer Division?
lgschrivenbach: At the time I wasn't serving under Rommel. I went into France serving under Guderian as a communications officer
jedmondson3: Did you serve with Guderian throughout the invasion of France?
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: As a communication officer, were you on the front lines relaying messages from there or were you at a headquarters far from the action?
lgschrivenbach: in France I was at one of our many HQs (or CQs) straddled along our lines
jedmondson3: During the invasion, Rommel's division spearheaded through France with little communication to headquarters. Were you aware of this at your own headquarters? How much knowledge of the field did you have at your station?
lgschrivenbach: our station was always flooded with soldiers and mainly officers complaing about Rommel's tactics, and messages went to and from our station to that of Rundstedt, whom Guderian constantly "hounded"
jedmondson3: What did you think of Guderian? How did he compare with other officers you had served with?
lgschrivenbach: oh i liked him - a very good officer. what i didn't like was how he never seemed to have any real initiative of his own - he always wanted someone elses advice first, especially if someone higher up wasn't listening
jedmondson3: So, he talked to you for advice?
lgschrivenbach: no
jedmondson3: Did you get to see von Rundstedt during the French campaign?
lgschrivenbach: yes i did
jedmondson3: When did you see him again, and did you get a chance to talk to him?
lgschrivenbach: I remember that in 1940, I saw him at a meeting / "get together" that he had with Guderian and some other officers. Yes, I spoke to him - he seemed rather curious about modern radio techniques.
jedmondson3: Was Rommel discussed at this meeting? Were there any other officers that the headquarters was a bit irked at for their tactics during the French offensive?
lgschrivenbach: yes and no. he was discussed, but i don't recall any others being spoken about in the same way
jedmondson3: What did you think? By the end of the campaign, Rommel's thrust was considered a success. What were your impressions of his exploits?
jedmondson3: at the time that is.
lgschrivenbach: at the time I admired him for being unothodox. He didn't sit around waiting for someone's advice. He got on with his job
jedmondson3: When were your reassigned to the Deutsches Afrika Korps?
lgschrivenbach: 1941
jedmondson3: Did you arrive with Rommel and the 5th Light Division or did you arrive later?
jedmondson3: in Africa that is
lgschrivenbach: i went to Africa with the first bunch of Afrika Korps soldiers
jedmondson3: Did you set up station in Tripoli, or did you move with the 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion?
lgschrivenbach: Tripoli yes. But unlike my other previous commanders, I was not permitted to stay at HQ - Rommel wanted me on the field, with him
jedmondson3: What did you think of this? Were you afraid or excited?
jedmondson3: What was going through your mind?
lgschrivenbach: neither - I was curious because Rommel had never been "forceful" before. I suppose I was curious
jedmondson3: By April, Rommel had recaptured El Agheila and El Brega. What was your intelligence like at the time? Did you know of the strength of the British forces? How hectic was the fighting and advancing?
lgschrivenbach: we knew of British build ups of forces - one of Rommel's many "spy" techniques. We listened to the enemy transmissions you see!
jedmondson3: They were broadcasted such information over open radio?
jedmondson3: er They broadcasted
lgschrivenbach: no
lgschrivenbach: not on "open" radio
lgschrivenbach: you must take into account the winds and sands of the desert - frequencies can often be crossed and messages overheard
jedmondson3: Very interesting.
jedmondson3: What did you think of the British resistance before Tobruk?
lgschrivenbach: not bad - but it was all more equal after Monty arrived in my opinion. This was mainly because of the moral of the British troops - I don't think that Auckileck was very good at moral
jedmondson3: At this time, the 15th Panzer Division had still not arrived, and Rommel had no real tanks, did you approve of his advance? Were you impressed with his tactics?
lgschrivenbach: did I approve? speed was the element of success for us. We had to advance. He was very hard during this time - not an aspect of his character that I had previously noticed. All of those nice films you see where he shares with his men - most of that was done for the nazi newsreels
jedmondson3: So he didn't eat with the men?
jedmondson3: Didn't spend time out there with them in the field?
jedmondson3: what do you mean?
lgschrivenbach: oh no, he spent time with us - but, how can i explain.... it was his attitude. some of his comments could be very hard and offensive sometimes
jedmondson3: Do you think it was just the pressure?
lgschrivenbach: pressure of what?
jedmondson3: Pressure of command, lack of sleep, etc.
lgschrivenbach: lack of sleep perhaps I suppose
jedmondson3: How did you view the Tobruk defenses the first time you came upon them? Did they seem that imposing?
jedmondson3: Did you meet von Paulus when he came to watch the battle?
lgschrivenbach: imposing enough. Tobruk is a port, don't forget. one that was accessible to marauders from the desert and also from the sea.... von Paulus? yes, for a moment or two
lgschrivenbach: I psent more time speaking with von Salmuth
jedmondson3: What were your impressions of either of them? Where did von Salmuth end up going after the battle? Did you ever see von Paulus again?
lgschrivenbach: my impressions were that they were both outstanding officers. The next time I saw von Paulus was on a newsreel. As for von Salmuth, he appeared in the desert sometime around the end of 1941, so before Tobruk. After his visit he went back to Europe
jedmondson3: Tobruk fell and Rommel retreated for a bit to Halfaya Pass where he decimated the British armor. Did you get to see any of this battle? What was it like surviving the coming retreat?
lgschrivenbach: it was lucky - what else? i don't remember ever seeing any of this particular battle as I was sick at the time :-&
jedmondson3: What kind of sickness was it?
jedmondson3: Historians note the pass was easily defendable and the 88's were excellent anti-tank weaponry. Do you disagree?
lgschrivenbach: you are very curious aren't you!
jedmondson3: It's all in the details, my friend ;)
lgschrivenbach: No, I don't disagree at all, but I often wonder what might have been had we not had our 88s. My sickness, if I remember correctly was jaundice
lgschrivenbach: :-&
jedmondson3: What was the general mood by the end of the retreat?
jedmondson3: Was there still optimism?
lgschrivenbach: of course! we had an excellent commander! ;)
jedmondson3: So, the next advanced started in January, and Pearl Harbor was bombed in December of 1941. When did you hear about this, and what did you think?
jedmondson3: er advance
lgschrivenbach: you being an american, i doubt you will like my comments and thoughts about pearl harbor
jedmondson3: That doesn't mean they are not worth saying. Please share your thoughts.
lgschrivenbach: ok, here goes. I heard about it with Rommel, on the radio. Personally I thought that it was not unprovoked, because of American activity in compounding oil in Asia, but I did however think that it was slightly excessive, although from a military point of view, mine and Rommel's opinion was that it was a well planned and successful operation / attack
jedmondson3: What do you mean by compounding oil?
lgschrivenbach: you don't know?
jedmondson3: I'm not familiar with the terminology. I do know that Roosevelt hid most of what he was doing from the American public. I'm very curious to know if his actions were well known amongst the German officer corps.
lgschrivenbach: when Japan started showing imperialistic designs in south-east Asia, the Americans impounded the oil reserves there.
jedmondson3: Ah yes, the embargo on all shipping. Very over the top. I don't disagree that the attack was deserved or successful.
jedmondson3: Quite the contrary
lgschrivenbach: ok
jedmondson3: Which brings us to supplies
jedmondson3: Over 220,000 tons of Axis shipping was sunk between June and October of 1941, which limited what could be sent to Rommel.
jedmondson3: How did this affect you, and how did your units handle the shortage?
jedmondson3: And how did you feel about the supply situation?
lgschrivenbach: are you referring to food or amunition?
jedmondson3: Both, was there one in more abundance?
jedmondson3: What were you lacking in?
lgschrivenbach: i suppose one could say that we had more food than ammunition, basically because we could eat the local "produce". Petrol was sometimes a problem. But I personally didn't think there were many problems until Monty gained the strict advantage, namely in late 1942/43
lgschrivenbach: i hope you won't mind if i disconnect for the moment?
jedmondson3: Not at all, thank you for your patience with this interview.
jedmondson3: How long will you be?
lgschrivenbach: well, i don't know if i will be able to reconnect tonight, but i would not mind answering questions in an e-mail, unless you are available next week or during the weekend at some time?
jedmondson3: I won't be available tonight, I have to work. Perhaps next week. I'll try sending you some questions through email, and if you'd like to talk again next week, I should be able to make myself available.
jedmondson3: Thank you for your time, once again.
lgschrivenbach: i am sorry about the tensions and our argument
jedmondson3: The fault is certainly not entirely yours. Growing pains amongst friends I hope :).
lgschrivenbach: may i ask how old your girlfriend is?
jedmondson3: 29, she started her new professorship this week.
jedmondson3: How has the business been going? Has your garden been growing well?
lgschrivenbach: much older than you! you are keen! i have some photos from the afrika korps. would you like to see some of them? i can send them in a mail
jedmondson3: Absolutely! I would love to see them.
lgschrivenbach: oh yes, very well thankyou. we have sold lots of figs these past few days
jedmondson3: You have fig trees?
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: How many?
jedmondson3: Oh you don't have to answer that. If you need to go, I understand.
lgschrivenbach: 2 but it has been an exceptionally big crop

August 22, 2005 [Dates]

jedmondson3: Afternoon.
lgschrivenbach: yes, good morning
jedmondson3: How was the weekend?
lgschrivenbach: fine thankyou. just finished it off with a good morning's shopping :-) you recieved my photographs ok?
jedmondson3: Would you like me to come back at 4:30 p.m.? I just wanted to give you a time that was convenient. And yes, I received the photos. Everything looks nice.
jedmondson3: Do you remember what was going on in the Africa picture?
lgschrivenbach: but if you are good for an hour now then so am i
lgschrivenbach: which one?
jedmondson3: it was labelled Afrika.bmp
jedmondson3: There are 3 men in the photo
jedmondson3: Two are sitting on the ground
jedmondson3: One of them is you? To the left perhaps?
lgschrivenbach: ah yes! if I remember correctly it was one of our rare moments of rest - and you have correctly identified me! well done
jedmondson3: Who is the other person sitting? And what is the person in the background doing? Also, was this your color camera, or was this army issue or what?
lgschrivenbach: no army issue cameras were b/w, but if you were lucky enough to acquire some colour film, as I was, then you could still use it.
lgschrivenbach: I don't recall what the man at the back was doing, but the man I am with worked on the communications with me
jedmondson3: Very cool. The photographs were a real treat.
jedmondson3: Do you stay in contact with anyone else from the Afrikakorps?
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: Do you mind if I ask whom? Are there any gatherings of such people in Germany? Say on an annual basis, like a veteran's reunion?
lgschrivenbach: only a couple of months ago I attended an Afrika Korps reunion - one of our explosive guys was in a wheelchair :-S I stayed in touch with the young man sat next to me in the photograph
jedmondson3: How many veterans attend the Afrika Korps reunion nowadays, and how far do you have to drive to get to it?
jedmondson3: or fly
lgschrivenbach: Well, as the members were from all over Germany, each year we hold it in a different town. This year we all travelled to Berlin. For me it was a 3 hour train journey
lgschrivenbach: Every year there are a few less of us - too old to travel or passed away, but there are still a few hundred of us, and half way through our dinner, we stand up and salute to Rommel's memory ;)
lgschrivenbach: and the other photographs were okay?
jedmondson3: All of them were great :)
lgschrivenbach: even the Rundstedt ones?
jedmondson3: Any pictures of you and where you went are relevant. This is your interview ;).
lgschrivenbach: I know. But I was referring to the fact that I have many more photos of Rommel as he did not mind the camera and he would pose for his photo
jedmondson3: Hah. What an interesting aspect of his character! Any other photographs you would share a very much appreciated. Like I said, looking at them is a real treat.
jedmondson3: So, back to our last topic, the first retreat from Tobruk
lgschrivenbach: with pleasure
lgschrivenbach: yes - ?
jedmondson3: You said the supply situation wasn't bad. Everyone seemed to have food and ammunition.
jedmondson3: Morale was high - you had a good commander ;)
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: At this time, you thought little of the official American entrance into World War II?
jedmondson3: And were you all calling this World War II at this time, or what did you call this war then?
lgschrivenbach: We called it The War. About America and it's entrance into the war? We thought it good that they supported Britain with munitions and so on, but we did not agree with how they thought they knew everything - a thought that was shattered at Kasserine!
jedmondson3: So, you thought it was good for Britain, or you thought it was good to be fighting them? Did you realize that Britain sorely needed munitions at the time?
lgschrivenbach: of course
jedmondson3: Many historians have noted that most of the Italian units were poor quality. Did you agree with this sentiment or did the Italian units fight well?
lgschrivenbach: it is said that N. Africa is the only theater of war from the time were these problems were "respected" in the sense that even though each side took advantage of the other in such a situation, it was always a clean war
lgschrivenbach: No, I completely disagree. The Italians fought VERY well.
jedmondson3: So, you think leadership was the Italian's flaw and that the soldiers fought well, or why do you think they were being so easily defeated in Ethiopia, Greece, and Africa before Rommel got there?
jedmondson3: I'm just interested in your thoughts about them because Fraser and other historians have noted that German army officers did not think highly of Italian troops. I didn't know if this was widespread thought or what.
lgschrivenbach: They were easily defeated in Afrika before Rommel because the British had an excellent General, by the name of Wavell. Had Wavell been allowed to go right up into Tunisia, then Rommel would never have gone to Afrika. So, with Wavell there, Rommel appeared after to "help Italy out of the shit", and then with Auckinleck, it wasn't difficult to get results for us all
lgschrivenbach: Rommel thought very highly of the Italians. There were more of us, with better weapons and such, but the Italian soldier was a good soldier, and he fought well
jedmondson3: Rommel took a short 3 day retreat to Germany before starting the next offensive. Did you have a chance to come home before the second push to Tobruk?
lgschrivenbach: no
lgschrivenbach: I was in Afrika all the time, until we all finally had to leave
jedmondson3: Really? Wow. So, you spent years in Afrika without seeing your wife, brother and sister or mother?
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: Did you receive lots of letters? Hopefully, your family kept in touch.
lgschrivenbach: oh yes of course, plus "red cross parcels" full of rationned goodies. I don't think that my wife was ever a member of the Rommel Fan Club though
jedmondson3: Okay, so the next offensive was pretty rapid and you reached Gazala by February. Rommel flew to Berlin again and stayed there for over a month. Do you remember Rommel taking these long leaves of absence? Who was usually in charge then and did you still advance or wait for his return?
lgschrivenbach: when was he in Berlin for over a month?
jedmondson3: Fraser notes from February 16th to March 19th
lgschrivenbach: which year?
jedmondson3: 1942
jedmondson3: This was around the time that preparations were being made to hit Tobruk once more
lgschrivenbach: I don't recall this I'm sorry
jedmondson3: No problem. You don't have to remember everything :D
lgschrivenbach: but when he WAS awy it could vary from Nehring to Kesselring and then sometimes to a general whose name I don't recall, but it begann with an S
jedmondson3: Do you remember the second battle of Tobruk? How did you feel seeing the port once again? Did you know that it would fall this time?
jedmondson3: I'm sure if it was Speidel you would remember ;)
lgschrivenbach: no I didn't know. As for how I felt - I hoped it would fall. One of theose milestones you never quite leave behind... no it wasn't Speidel - Afrika was much to advanced for his brain
jedmondson3: LOL
lgschrivenbach: :o)
jedmondson3: Cruewell was captured before Tobruk fell. Did you ever meet him? His light aircraft was apparently shot down in May.
lgschrivenbach: I may have met him once or twice - another man who was sometimes left in charge was Von Thoma - captured at the second battle of El Alamein
jedmondson3: Tobruk fell on June 21st, and 32,000 allies fell into Rommel's hands. Do you remember what happened to all of these men? Were they sent behind the lines? Who handled prisoners?
lgschrivenbach: most of the prisonners were sent to camps still in the desert behind our lines. After we left Afrika, those that we still had were shipped back to Germany
jedmondson3: Before the 2nd Battle of El Alemein started, Montgomery was appointed as commander in Africa. Did you just think this was just another commander? Were your spirits still high about success in Africa?'
lgschrivenbach: of course
jedmondson3: Oh, BTW, was General Stumme the 'S' General you had thought of earlier? He took over for Rommel during the battle of El Alemein while Rommel took leave from September 19th to October 24th.
lgschrivenbach: ah yes! General Stumme! Thankyou
jedmondson3: No prob. I mention him specifically because Keitel called Rommel on the 24th to ask if he was fit to return to Africa because Stumme was apparently missing and a major British offensive had begun. Do you remember this? Was Stumme really missing?
lgschrivenbach: Stumme was dead
jedmondson3: Died of a heart attack, right?
lgschrivenbach: apparently - he died when he fell for one of Monty's bluffs
jedmondson3: About this time, Rommel received the notorious "Commando Order." Do you remember this?
lgschrivenbach: yes very well -
jedmondson3: What did you think about this order? You had stated yourself that the desert war had been clean by the day's standards, especially considering the situation in Russia.
lgschrivenbach: what did I think?
jedmondson3: What did you think of the British saying they would grant no POW rights to captured Italians and Germans and would execute on the spot?
lgschrivenbach: I didn't believe it - I don't believe it ever happened either, and Rommel refused to execute the CO
jedmondson3: What was it like being in the Afrikakorps at this time. By November, Rommel was believed to have had 35 operational tanks and a very precarious situation on his hands at Alemein.
jedmondson3: Did Rommel mention anything to you and the officers about correspondence with Hitler at this time?
lgschrivenbach: what sort of correspondance?
jedmondson3: Well, Hitler sent Rommel an order that said "Not a step to be yielded. As to your troops, you can shown them no other road than that to victory or death."
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: Montgomery is rumored to have laughed out loud when he read it
jedmondson3: Did Rommel say anything to you or the other officers?
lgschrivenbach: Rommel was very angry when he recieved this order, and as you know it was not followed because we retreated
lgschrivenbach: Rommel said to me that "he is mad, and understands nothing of war"
jedmondson3: Fraser notes that Rommel stayed there for a day, following the order until Kesselring saw him personally and advised him to defy the Fuhrer.
jedmondson3: Did you ever meet Kesselring? Did Rommel say anything else, or was this it?
lgschrivenbach: that was the basic line of what Rommel said. I met Kesselring yes. Do you want a photo of him too?
jedmondson3: Sure, that would be great. Hitler sent another message during Rommel's retreat on November 20th. It said "The Mersa El Brega position is to be held at all costs." Rommel is said to have said "The war is lost." Did he ever say such things to you or the other officers?
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: What were your thoughts on Hitler at this point?
lgschrivenbach: just a moment - I have just sent you a photo through
jedmondson3: through email or messenger?
lgschrivenbach: email
jedmondson3: It hasn't come through just yet.
lgschrivenbach: okay - well I never liked Hitler very much, so these sorts of orders just confirmed what I thought of him
jedmondson3: So, it's early 1943 and the British are pursuing you across the desert. On February 3rd, von Paulus and 90,000 Germans surrendered at Stalingrad. Do you remember what you were doing when you heard about this? What did you think? Did you know anything about how bad it was going in Russia?
lgschrivenbach: My brother Hasso served in Russia, and he would write to me, so I had a sort of an idea of how it was. But I could never know. We all thought that it was very noble of Paulus to surrender, any good and committed soldier would have done the same
jedmondson3: Did you think the war was over at this time, or did you consider this part of the process? That Germany would push back the Russians in the East?
lgschrivenbach: I always thought we had more chance of success in the desert than in Russia
jedmondson3: So, now comes the battle of Kassering Pass. How did it feel to be on the offensive again, moving back east across the desert?
lgschrivenbach: wonderful
jedmondson3: BTW, at any point did you or the other officers have suspicions that ULTRA had all of your messages decoded for the British?
lgschrivenbach: no, but our codes were alwyas changing anyway
jedmondson3: Did you ever meet von Arnim and if so, what did you think of him?
lgschrivenbach: I don't recall personally meeting him no, sorry
lgschrivenbach: BTW - in an eralier interview you asked me how many languages I could speak, I hope that you still have my answer!
jedmondson3: In case I don't, would you care to reiterate :)?
jedmondson3: If you remember, half of the first day's conversation was lost
jedmondson3: I apologize
lgschrivenbach: of course - with pleasure. GERMAN, ENGLISH, FRENCH, ITALIAN, ARABIC and HEBREW :D
lgschrivenbach: at Kasserine, we felt that we had the advantage even before the beginning of the battle, because we knew that the Americans were relative newcomers. One young and rather green American soldier was captured by us and he said that he wanted to kidnap Rommel - =))
jedmondson3: Heh.
jedmondson3: Nice emote.
lgschrivenbach: it is quite true, I can assure you
jedmondson3: You left the Afrikakorps shortly after Kasserine pass didn't you? If you weren't captured with the rest of the Afrikakorps on May 12th?
lgschrivenbach: yes that is correct
jedmondson3: So, why did you leave the Afrikakorps and where did you go?
jedmondson3: And please, feel free to explain at length :)
lgschrivenbach: I left the Afrika Korps because I was requested elsewhere. I was able to spend a month at home for some long earned rest, and then I was posted to France, at what was to become Rommel's HQ. It was said that I had been personally requested.
jedmondson3: By Rommel himself?
lgschrivenbach: yes apparently
jedmondson3: So you left Africa to join Rommel in France to help with repelling the coming Allied invasion?
jedmondson3: Rommel was called to serve in several different theaters within the next year, including Greece and Italy. Did you leave France to join him at these battle areas or did you stay in France?
lgschrivenbach: no, I was in France BEFORE Rommel waent there, as he was in Italy and Greece first. He arrived later.
jedmondson3: So, what did you do in France, while Rommel was away in Greece and Italy?
lgschrivenbach: I was in communications, the same as in Africa
jedmondson3: What officers were in charge in France while Rommel was away?
jedmondson3: Did you get to go home to Berlin during this reprieve from battle? You said you hadn't been home during the entire African campaign.
lgschrivenbach: When Rommel was in Italy and Greece the men in charge were Blaskowitz and Rundstedt as far as I remember
jedmondson3: Did you get to go home during the months before the Allied invasion?
lgschrivenbach: yes, a few times, when I was working for Rundstedt
lgschrivenbach: so much so that one time he phoned my house to see where I was
jedmondson3: Hah.
jedmondson3: So, when did you leave Rommel's staff then? Had the battle for Normandy begun or was it sooner?
lgschrivenbach: no it was about January 43
jedmondson3: I read something about this on the Island Farm website, but would you mind telling the story of why you left Rommel's staff?
lgschrivenbach: of course not. I didn't get on well with Speidel, and I had been annoyed also with Rommel, or more by his methods. I said what I thought of Rommel "that he was a nobody who wanted to be a somebody". Speidel told Rommel, and I was aksed to leave, by Speidel. Rommel said that I didn't have to leave, but he wanted an explination. I appologized but said I would leave anyway, because I couldn't bare to work with Speidel
jedmondson3: In an earlier interview, you had said that Rommel was an excellent commander. What made you change your mind?
lgschrivenbach: he WAS an excellent commander, .... he never failed to realize that there were other more experienced officers than himself, but some of his methods were... destined to fail
jedmondson3: Like what? I don't mean to be accusatory or inflammatory. I'm just very interested. As an officer under Erwin Rommel, what did you not like about his command style? What were some of his flaws? What were some of his strengths? Why was it time to move on to a different command?
lgschrivenbach: we were all supposed to work together as a team, to strengthen the Western defences. Of course, he worked with us, but ulike Rundstedt or Blaskowitz, he always seemed to have his own personnal schedule that he wanted to publicize. I felt that I was ready for something new and other than Speidel, I think that I might have left anyway
jedmondson3: So, how did you come to Rundstedt's command? When did he find out that you were no longer under Rommel?
lgschrivenbach: I was posted to him through OKW. There was a "free opsting" there at his HQ. He found out where I came from when my references were posted to him
jedmondson3: Did he remember you from earlier meetings? Or did he have to be reminded? What was Rundstedt like as a person? How did he get along with his officers?
lgschrivenbach: he remembered me when he saw me. He was a very nice, dignified man who was a soldier's general
jedmondson3: Did you ever meet his son Hans and his wife Bila?
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: When and where did you meet them?
lgschrivenbach: but his son Hans was posted to his HQ anyway, so I worked with him
lgschrivenbach: I met Bila at a, how do you say, "gathering" - dinner, in Germany
lgschrivenbach: a dinner at which myself and some other officers showed off our musical skills
lgschrivenbach: that is where I impressed my new boss and his wife :-)
jedmondson3: What instrument did you play?
lgschrivenbach: <:-P
lgschrivenbach: deaburka
lgschrivenbach: sorry - daburka
jedmondson3: So, you were on drums, who else was playing ;)?
jedmondson3: And what kind of tunes were you playing?
lgschrivenbach: a mixed bunch, including some luftwaffe and Navy officers
lgschrivenbach: when I played, we were a bunch of amateur musicians who used to be in Afrika. Middle Eastern type tunes
lgschrivenbach: the style is called Mizrah
jedmondson3: So, did this dinner occur before or after D Day?
lgschrivenbach: before
jedmondson3: What was it like, being in France on the German side during D Day?
lgschrivenbach: a nightmare
lgschrivenbach: and chaotic
jedmondson3: Were you near the front lines or were you allowed to work at a headquarters away from the ground fighting?
lgschrivenbach: it was MY fault that noone could get through to the HQ of General von Salmuth, because I was communications officer - I didn't cut the lines!!! No, I was always at HQ
lgschrivenbach: do you mind if we leave this for today?
jedmondson3: Not at all. When would be a good time to finish our interview?
lgschrivenbach: tomorrow?
jedmondson3: Same time?
lgschrivenbach: yes - by the way, in answer to your question on my meeting Hans Gerd and if I ever did - he is in the photo on the Island Farm site
lgschrivenbach: :-P
jedmondson3: Ah, I remember now, the one with the funny arrow pointing at your head :P? Heh.
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: Well Gunther, thank you so much for your time once again. I'll see you tomorrow afternoon then.
jedmondson3: Have a great rest of the day.
lgschrivenbach: just a moment
lgschrivenbach: i personally have no problem in your publishing the photos on your site. but the few i sent you of rundstedt there may be a problem
jedmondson3: Okay, what is the problem? Nothing of Rundstedt may be put on the web?
lgschrivenbach: the family seem to be a bit funny about which photos are published
jedmondson3: Okay, I won't post any of the photos of him then. Not unless you tell me I can.

August 23, 2005 [Dates]

jedmondson3: Good afternoon, Gunther :)
lgschrivenbach: Hello James. You are well?
jedmondson3: Absolutely. We'll, pick up from where we left off yesterday, unless you have anything to add or elaborate on.
lgschrivenbach: no nothing
jedmondson3: Well, I'm really interested in one of the last things you mentioned.
lgschrivenbach: yes?
jedmondson3: You said that you were the reason no one could contact Gerneral von Salmuth
jedmondson3: What did you mean
jedmondson3: ?
lgschrivenbach: no, that was the accusation which was thrown at me. It wasn't my fault, it was the French underground movement that blew all the phone lines
jedmondson3: Ah, I reread the sentence a few times, and now with that last bit of information, it makes sense :D
jedmondson3: Okay, so the Allies have landed, and you are serving under von Rundstedt. Would you mind walking us through the last days of the Reich as you saw them?
jedmondson3: How was von Rundstedt's demeanor? When/how were you captured?
lgschrivenbach: sorry - i was called by my wofe
jedmondson3: No problem. I would hate for you to get in trouble on my account ;)
lgschrivenbach: I was captured at Bad Reichenhall on May 5th 1945. What do you mean "how" was I captured?
lgschrivenbach: Rundstedt always knew that the war was not going to be won by us, but he was still always very cheery and such
jedmondson3: Well, were you fighting in the streets when you were captured? Were you inside of the Bad Reichenhall waiting to be captured?
jedmondson3: What force captured you?
lgschrivenbach: I was inside one of the hotels at Bad Reichenhall - I forget the name, but it is still there now. I believe that I was captured by the same American battalion as Rundstedt
jedmondson3: Just a moment., I'm not able to receive the file
jedmondson3: Hmmm... It says you might be behind a firewall
jedmondson3: Are you getting any error messages?
lgschrivenbach: don't worry, i will send it in a mail
lgschrivenbach: no
jedmondson3: I appreciate it
lgschrivenbach: carry on with your questions and i will send the photo through
jedmondson3: Between D Day and the time you were captured did you speak with Rommel at all?
jedmondson3: Or any of his staff?
lgschrivenbach: ye I did
jedmondson3: When did you speak with him, and do you remember what you talked about?
lgschrivenbach: I spoke with him when he came visiting me on his own at my house. We spoke about all kinds of things, from vegetables to the War
jedmondson3: Did he mention anything about the ultimatum that he and Kluge were going to send Hitler? And, did he have any good advice on vegetables ;)?
jedmondson3: Oh, and was this meeting before or after Rommel was wounded in the strafing incident on July 17th?
lgschrivenbach: He mentionned that he and von Kluge had drafted some sort of paper that was to be addressed to Hitler. I tried to advise him otherwise but he said that something had to be done. As to vegetables, he had his idea on how to grow them - "in greenhouses like in Holland".... needless to say I have not followed his advice but my garden renders great vegetables. We also played with a train set and the Field marshal stayed for dinner. It was before July 17th.
lgschrivenbach: i think - yes, because he wasn't injured at the time
jedmondson3: What were you doing when you heard of the attempt on Hitler on July 20th? Did you hear the famous "Attention! The Fuhrer is dead!" on the radio?
jedmondson3: And did you know anything about this conspiracy before it happend?
lgschrivenbach: On July 20th I was posted in France doing my job and my radio was not tuned in to that particular frequency so no, I didn't hear it on the radio. Yes, I knew
jedmondson3: How did you know? Were you involved, and were you questioned by the Gestapo?
lgschrivenbach: Was I involved?
jedmondson3: You said that you knew about the assassination plans, correct? How did you know about them if you weren't involved in the conspiracy?
lgschrivenbach: I knew of it because there had been several attempts to involve von Rundstedt and me being on his staff, I naturally knew, as the Field Marshal made no attempt at concealing his thoughts and feelings
jedmondson3: Ah, okay
jedmondson3: And von Rundstedt was steadfastly against it?
lgschrivenbach: many people knew, but were not involved
lgschrivenbach: no he wasn't
jedmondson3: However, they didn't report the perpetrators until after they had attempted the assassination. Wouldn't that be helping as well?
lgschrivenbach: he always said that it was a good idea, but that he, as a Prussian officer, could never involve himself in such a thing and betray his oath to Gührer and country
lgschrivenbach: "Führer"
lgschrivenbach: i don't understand your last question
jedmondson3: It's more rhetorical anyway. I was just saying by not turning in the conspirators, you were really sort of helping them in a way.
lgschrivenbach: perhaps
jedmondson3: Did Rundstedt ever mention the coming Russian advance? Was he worried? Did you know of any of the atrocities on the Eastern Front?
lgschrivenbach: Yes, he sometimes spoke of it, but worried? First of all you have to be bothered to be worried. I think that all he wanted to do was to retire peacefully and grow old gracefully. Are you asking if I personally knew of the atrocities?
jedmondson3: Yes, you had heard about a conspiracy to kill Hitler. I wondered if any word had gotten to you about the Holocaust?
lgschrivenbach: just a moment - a moment ago you asked about the atrocities on the Eastern Front. Which are you curious about - the "war crimes" of 1941 or the Final Solution?
jedmondson3: Both. I'm curious about both.
jedmondson3: And please, could you explain what you mean about the "war crimes of 1941"
lgschrivenbach: you don't know about Berdichev?
jedmondson3: The name does not immediately strike me as familiar, no. What happened at Berdichev, and when did you first find out about it?
lgschrivenbach: The Einsatzgruppen SS Commando Order massacred Russians at Berdichev - as I did not serve there, I know only the basic outline of the story - a massacre which von Rundstedt knew about (but did not order).
jedmondson3: When did you find out about the events? 1941, 1944, or when?
lgschrivenbach: as to the Final Solution, we constantly recieved orders in Afrika that any ennemy soldiers who were caught were to be shot if they were Jews, in accordance with the Final Solution to the Jewish Question. Rommel refused to do so
lgschrivenbach: Berdichev - 1941
lgschrivenbach: I always knew that we had an anti Jewish government, but I never for once thought that we would instigate such Industrial killings of human beings.
jedmondson3: So, you found out about Berdichev the year it happened? You weren't serving under von Rundstedt then. Do you remember how he told you about it? Were you having dinner with him, or did you see him at a get together?
lgschrivenbach: my brother told me
jedmondson3: So, your brother had heard it from von Rundstedt, or did Rundstedt have anything to do with it?
jedmondson3: Getting the information to you that is
lgschrivenbach: no, my brother served on his staff in the Russian campaign
jedmondson3: So, your brother knew first hand? Wow.
jedmondson3: Did he tell you any other stories like Berdichev?
lgschrivenbach: some - but I thought that this interview was about my own experiences?!
jedmondson3: Indeed, it is, and I would think that the first times you heard about the atrocities committed on the Eastern Front, especially since your wife is part Jewish, would be a part of your experience.
jedmondson3: What did you feel when your brother told you about what happened? Were you shocked? Disbelief? Anger?
jedmondson3: What did you think?
lgschrivenbach: I wasn't shocked no. One would expect such behaviour from the SS. Anger was more the potent feeling because wars should not be carried out like this. But the atrocities in Russia were not only committed to Jews - "Bolcheviks are subhuman" as the Nazis said, so Russians were attacked whether they were Jewish or not
jedmondson3: In the Afrikakorps, no SS were assigned to Rommel, correct? When was the first time you served alongside an SS unit?
jedmondson3: Did you see any atrocities committed by the SS in France?
lgschrivenbach: in france
lgschrivenbach: no
lgschrivenbach: I worked along side the Waffen-SS. Their methods were slightly more unruly and towards our unacceptable sometimes, but the attrocities were mainly committed by the Einsatzgruppen
jedmondson3: What did you think about the funeral that Hitler threw for Rommel? I believe Rundstedt was there as the Fuhrer's representative. Did Rundstedt mention anything about what he thought about the funeral?
jedmondson3: And were you able to attend the funeral?
lgschrivenbach: Rundstedt said it was a farce, and the speach that he read there was already waiting for him when he arrived, and that is why he sounded so nervous and shaky. I did attend the funeral, yes.
jedmondson3: What did you think of the funeral?
lgschrivenbach: all very glamorous and well presented, with an underlying tone of a farce
jedmondson3: What did you think was in store for Germany after the war?
lgschrivenbach: when it was actually over or before it happened?
jedmondson3: Before. Did you ever think about what might happen? Did you ever wonder if the Allies would be lenient and work with Germany to rebuild?
lgschrivenbach: yes of course. I was curious as to what would happen to the eastern parts of Germany that fell into the Russian hands. All the territories like this were desolved and became part of the USSR - so this was a curiosity
jedmondson3: Well, I don't have anything else to add about the World War II period. Do you have anything else to add?
lgschrivenbach: no, i don't think so
jedmondson3: I am curious, and I hope it is not too personal, when did your parents die and how old were they when they died? Also, how old are your wife, brother, and sister today?
jedmondson3: I hope that doesn't sound too cold, but we really didn't talk too much about your father or mother, and I was hoping they might have made it through the war.
lgschrivenbach: my father dies in 1979 and my mother in 1981. My brother is today 97 years old, my sister 91, and my wife 92
jedmondson3: Wow, they certainly did survive the war. Speaking of which, did your wife and mother continue to harbor Jews throughout the war at your home, or was that strictly before the war?
jedmondson3: Do you remember any of the names of the people you helped?
lgschrivenbach: before the war there were more Jews to help. During the war we, that is my wife and mother, often helped to harbour British airmen who dropped into Germany and then had to get home
lgschrivenbach: no, I don't remember - it was best not to know
jedmondson3: Did you see any of the people you helped after the war?
lgschrivenbach: no
jedmondson3: After the war, you were moved to a few camps (Glen MIll Camp 168 and the Island Farm Special Camp 11). What were these camps supposed to be, and for those 2 years, what did you have to do while living there? Also, was your wife there with you?
lgschrivenbach: no, my wofe was in Germany. What do you mean "what were they supposed to be"? We didn't have to do anything special. We had to do a bit of work, get up early... and be prisonners of war
jedmondson3: What was it like living at this camp? Was your wife allowed to visit? How did you bide your time there? Did you read any books? Listen to any music? What was life like at the camps?
jedmondson3: and first question should be 'these camps'
lgschrivenbach: no, my wife never visited. I personally used to bide my time by doing some work on the camp if it needed doing, reading, writing letters home, and if anyone wanted a radio fixing they would often come to me
jedmondson3: Always the communications officer, huh? ;)
lgschrivenbach: (:|
jedmondson3: You returned to Berlin for "denazification" in 1948. What was denazification, and what did it involve?
lgschrivenbach: no, I didn't return to Berlin for denazification. This was done in Hannover
jedmondson3: Ah, I apologize. I read your timeline at the Island Farm website, and it says "1948: Returned to Germany (Berlin). Denazification."
jedmondson3: So, in Hannover, what did they do to "Denazify" you?
lgschrivenbach: just a moment
lgschrivenbach: For Denazification, German officers were split into five categories : Major Offenders, Offenders, Lesser Offenders, Followers and Persons Exonerated. Every adult German citizen was screened and responsability for this was initially given over to the four military governors. In 1947, this task was handed over to the German authorities. I was in the category of Persons Exonerated as I was a Reserve Colonel. Von Rundstedt was recommended to be placed with us in category 5, but in the end, the Briitish Government decided that he should stay in Category 1, as a Major Offender.
jedmondson3: And what did that mean for him? Was he not allowed in certain places? Was he denied anything that you were not? What did a Category 1 Major Offender have to look forward to?
jedmondson3: Or not look forward to?
lgschrivenbach: a War Crimes trial
lgschrivenbach: he was advised not to go into another zone other than the one he resided in, because the laws were not applicable there. also, as a Major Offender, ones pension and belongings, including your house, could be frozen and redistributed to other members of the public
jedmondson3: I remember watching some of Goerring's trial, but I don't remember seeing Rundstedt's. What happened in his trial? Was he convicted of anything?
jedmondson3: Did he receive any punishment?
lgschrivenbach: no he was never tried
jedmondson3: Ah
jedmondson3: He was just labeled as category 1? Was the label removed before his death in 1953?
jedmondson3: Was his pension or belongings ever redistributed among the public?
lgschrivenbach: I believe it was, but I cannot remember to which.
lgschrivenbach: not his pension, that was just frozen in the US zone. His appartment at Kassel and the things in it were redistributed
jedmondson3: How often did you see von Rundstedt after denazification?
lgschrivenbach: i tried to visit him quite regularly
jedmondson3: How were his spirits when you saw him?
jedmondson3: Was he happy to be home and retired?
lgschrivenbach: it depended on when you saw him. his spirits were often quite dosn and depressed. he was happy to be retired, and happy to have a home, but i don't think that he was ever really happy
lgschrivenbach: not properly
jedmondson3: I would guess not. You moved around a bit, first staying in the Russian Zone of Berlin, then moving to West Germany, then on to Italy. Why Italy?
jedmondson3: Did you have family there?
jedmondson3: friends?
lgschrivenbach: no and no. but i had visited it before, and i had always wanted to go back there.
lgschrivenbach: it is very pretty
jedmondson3: So, you lived in Italy for over 20 years. When did you return to Germany and why?
lgschrivenbach: I returned twice for small trips, for the funerals on Rundstedt and Blumentritt in 1953 and 1967. After that, the next time I returned was aroung 1986. I just thought that I wanted to go home, and that that might be a good time for me and my wife
jedmondson3: This was about the time when the USSR was about to fall. Did you know, at the time, that Russia was about to topple?
lgschrivenbach: no
jedmondson3: What was it like, living through the Cold War in Europe?
lgschrivenbach: like it had been at any other time apart from furing the war
jedmondson3: So, you weren't worried about a coming war between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R or anything like that? Or was that anticipation just like Germany between the two wars?
jedmondson3: Did you expect another war in Germany after World War I?
jedmondson3: I know that's leaping backwards a bit, but I just thought of the question
lgschrivenbach: no I didn't, but I always thought the US was far more a threat during the Cold War thn the USSR
jedmondson3: You always thought the US was more of a threat to Italy? Or more of a threat to instigating a war?
jedmondson3: What do you mean?
jedmondson3: I don't see how it could be the former
lgschrivenbach: to instigating a war
jedmondson3: I would probably agree with that
jedmondson3: all things considered about the state of affairs today ;)
lgschrivenbach: you are the most sensible american i have ever spoken to! congratulations
jedmondson3: LOL. What was von Rundstedt's funeral like? Were you able to say any words at the funeral? In memorium?
lgschrivenbach: i should point out i think, that my wife and i returned to france during the 1970s for a holiday, over the course of which i bumped into general speidel
jedmondson3: Oh my. What happened when you bumped into Speidel?
lgschrivenbach: no i never said anything. His funeral was very modest, in the sense that the cortege was a horse drawn hurse - there were quite a lot of people there though
jedmondson3: And what exactly are the odds that on a trip to France in the 1970s, you would bump into Speidel?
jedmondson3: Small world.
lgschrivenbach: well i don't know - i know that he was head of european operations of NATO during the 60s. This was the early 70s - and he wasn't in uniform. we spoke and he actually said sorry for the misunderstanding of 1943 - hah!
jedmondson3: What did you say to him about that?
lgschrivenbach: i just said not to worry, that things were very chaotic then -
jedmondson3: Did you move back to Berlin in 1986, or did you move somewhere else in Germany?
lgschrivenbach: we moved to Kassel, where we still live today
jedmondson3: Well, Gunther, I'm afraid for the first time in our conversations that I am speechless :D. I'm out of questions. Is there anything else that you'd like to add?
lgschrivenbach: you haven't asked me about where I went after Italy! :-?
jedmondson3: I thought you said you came back to Kassel, where you live today. Where did you go after Italy?
lgschrivenbach: ah! I didn't say when I left Italy - I just said I came home to Germany in 1986
jedmondson3: So, when did you leave Italy, and where did you go? What did you do?
lgschrivenbach: I left there in 1979 and went to live in Israel, where we lived unitl 1986! I was a chef there, as in Italy, and my wife was able to see her family that left Germany in the 1930s
jedmondson3: Part of that confusion is also in your statements at the Island Farm website, where you said "I moved to Italy, where I stayed until 1986, only returning to attend the funerals.." :)
jedmondson3: What kind of chef? What was your specialty?
lgschrivenbach: did I - oh sorry. I will have to correct that. what kind of chef?
jedmondson3: What kind of food did you make?
jedmondson3: What kind of food do you like making?
lgschrivenbach: sorry - my wife is here putting me right! yes, we left Italy in 1986 - then we went to Israel for a few years, and came back to Kassel in 1995 - I am sorry. My mind is going. :((
jedmondson3: LOL
jedmondson3: A wife will always be the first to point out when your mind is slipping :D
lgschrivenbach: mainly savoury dishes, of italian influence - all those years of italy - but now i also make middle eastern style dishes
jedmondson3: Do you still play your daburka?
lgschrivenbach: yes - would you like a photo of that too?
jedmondson3: I would love some photos - especially any kind of photos with you and your family, or just you.
jedmondson3: Will help when I put everything together.
lgschrivenbach: eva is searching for some family photos for you -
jedmondson3: Also, please send me the images you tried to send earlier. I believe one was of Speidel
jedmondson3: Thank Eva for me ;)
lgschrivenbach: yes. have you got one i sent you before, and one from yesterday?
jedmondson3: In the meantime, I think I will catch some sleep. Thank you so much for setting aside your time to talk with me. I'll try to send you the edited transcripts and when I get things put together, I'll send you that as well.
jedmondson3: Which ones were those?
jedmondson3: Can you send those images through email. The images are not transferring through the messenger :(
lgschrivenbach: yes, no problem. with Kesselring and one of Rommel
lgschrivenbach: did you recieve a mail from someone else concerning the rundstedt photos?
jedmondson3: I don't seem to have the photos of Kesselring, and I don't remember receiving a Rommel photo yesterday, and there is no message from you in my mailbox. Could you try resending please? I didn't receive an email about the Rundstedt photos.
lgschrivenbach: it's a good thing you didn't ask me for anecdotes from my service in france
jedmondson3: Why's that?
lgschrivenbach: because you would think we were terribly undisciplined and bad!
jedmondson3: Hah, please share.
lgschrivenbach: i sent you a photo of rommel, rundstedt and blaskowitz at a conference - right?
jedmondson3: yes
jedmondson3: it's named paris1944.bmp, right?
lgschrivenbach: yes
jedmondson3: I've got it :D
lgschrivenbach: before the FMs went to that conference - they had both unknowingly consumed diuretic pills
jedmondson3: Did they take alot? Those pills make you have to use the restroom a lot if taken in large doses, don't they?
lgschrivenbach: yes they do
lgschrivenbach: O:-)
jedmondson3: From a website, "They can affect sexual potency in men." Heh. So, did you give them the pills or did someone else? :D
lgschrivenbach: i knew the person who did so and who persuaded his friend on rommel's staff to do the same. needless to say they took them unknowingly in a drink of coffee and the conference lasted for about 4 hours
jedmondson3: LOL. I take it this was not normal - the conference lasting for 4 hours that is.
lgschrivenbach: oh that could be pretty normal - we were just after a laugh, we didn't mean any harm. they were all big boys :-)
jedmondson3: Did they catch on to you? Did they suspect anything?
jedmondson3: or rather on to them
lgschrivenbach: no i don't think so, but rundstedt suspected his son of doing it for a joke
jedmondson3: Any other crazy shenanigans?
lgschrivenbach: i don't think so
jedmondson3: Well, if you think of any, you know my email address ;). I'll keep in touch. Hopefully, you'll do the same :)

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